Nick Stone and The King of Swords
ITW United Kingdom Chair Michael Jecks recently chatted with 2007 Thriller Award winner Nick Stone about his new thriller, The King of Swords.
You've had phenomenal success with your first novel - did that come as a shock?
More like a sense of grateful bewilderment. Gratitude that so many people liked what was basically a dark and bleak book with a not entirely sympathetic protagonist to root for - and bewilderment that they did.
What was it that stopped you from writing after school?
Not many writers start out writers, surely? They fail at others things first, don't they?
I wanted to write from the age of 11 or 12, I think. Crime fiction too. Call me precocious, a pioneer even, because the first thing I wrote was a crime-horror hybrid where all the characters - including the hero - turn into vampires.
You were a headhunter in FMCG, I believe?
Yes, for my sins. Wretched job, wretched people. Imagine Sartre's No Exit - for morons. Nothing stopped me from writing, exactly. I tried to write and hold down a full time job for twelve years. Never pulled off the combination - largely because I never found a job I particularly enjoyed, until I stopped looking. When I was writing Mr Clarinet, I worked as a part-time paralegal at the London criminal courts. That was bliss. Working murder trials. Liaising between criminals, lawyers and cops. The real deal, in other words.
I'd imagine your father was delighted when you began to write?
He's very supportive, yes. He used to be an Oxford Professor, but he got fed up with the mixture of petty bureaucracy and dire penury that characterizes the British academic system. He also thought British students were mostly dumb, ignorant, semi-literate and - above all - boring.
Dad had a choice between following his peers and pupils to well-paid jobs in the US, or going to Turkey. He picked Turkey because you can still smoke there. Dad is what Tom Wolfe would call "a champion smoker". Plus his students actually want to learn, which makes a huge difference.
You've had phenomenal success with your first novel - did that come as a shock?More like a sense of grateful bewilderment. Gratitude that so many people liked what was basically a dark and bleak book with a not entirely sympathetic protagonist to root for - and bewilderment that they did.
What was it that stopped you from writing after school?
Not many writers start out writers, surely? They fail at others things first, don't they?
I wanted to write from the age of 11 or 12, I think. Crime fiction too. Call me precocious, a pioneer even, because the first thing I wrote was a crime-horror hybrid where all the characters - including the hero - turn into vampires.
You were a headhunter in FMCG, I believe?
Yes, for my sins. Wretched job, wretched people. Imagine Sartre's No Exit - for morons. Nothing stopped me from writing, exactly. I tried to write and hold down a full time job for twelve years. Never pulled off the combination - largely because I never found a job I particularly enjoyed, until I stopped looking. When I was writing Mr Clarinet, I worked as a part-time paralegal at the London criminal courts. That was bliss. Working murder trials. Liaising between criminals, lawyers and cops. The real deal, in other words.
I'd imagine your father was delighted when you began to write?
He's very supportive, yes. He used to be an Oxford Professor, but he got fed up with the mixture of petty bureaucracy and dire penury that characterizes the British academic system. He also thought British students were mostly dumb, ignorant, semi-literate and - above all - boring.
Dad had a choice between following his peers and pupils to well-paid jobs in the US, or going to Turkey. He picked Turkey because you can still smoke there. Dad is what Tom Wolfe would call "a champion smoker". Plus his students actually want to learn, which makes a huge difference.
The books both feature Max Mingus -where did the character came from?
The Max part is a tribute to the guy who got me reading - Max Allen. He was a great guy. Haven't seen him in close to twenty years. We were at school together in the early 80s.
I used to keep him company while he smoked the same cigars Freud did - all the while telling me that Freud had died of mouth cancer. We'd talk books. Max had read Ulysses, Finnegan's Wake, and Mann's Doctor Faustus all before the age of 14. He got me reading. I'd read something he'd given me and then we'd discuss it while he gassed himself with a Sigmund stogie. Never met anyone like him again. He possessed genuine intelligence. People like him are few and far between. Most people at school who are supposed to be intelligent, are actually only good at doing exams and homework. They grow up and become middle managers.
Knowing Max, he'd probably be appalled by the tribute. The Mingus part is a respectful bow and scrape to Charles Mingus - jazz bassist, composer, bandleader, martinet, slugger and a very gifted author too. His "autobiography" Beneath the Underdog is well worth a read. It's about 85% fiction, but so beautifully written. He wrote it in Bellevue mental hospital, where he'd checked himself in for exhaustion and to get some peace and quiet. There's a beautiful scene in there where he's playing chess with Bobby Fischer and discussing creativity vs. productivity. The way he describes Fischer is actually quite close to the way I remember Max Allen. Another one-off, Mingus.
You have a real fascination with Miami. Too much Miami Vice when you were younger?
I've been going to Miami since 1979. I know it better than I do London, where I've lived for sixteen years. Miami's my favourite place on earth. Home in my heart.
I never watched Miami Vice when it was originally on. I barely watched any tv as a kid. And I've only ever seen the pilot - and that was late last year. Had that been my only exposure to Miami, I never would have set books there. Ditto that fucking awful film. I love Michael Mann - one of my favourite directors, a genuine auteur in an industry of quacks - but the film was dire. Terrible TERRIBLE casting. I think the three leads gave the worst performances of their careers.
The violence in your books is very authentic - have you had experience of such violence?
I'm on fairly intimate terms with violence. I used to be an amateur boxer in my teens. I've had my jaw broken twice (which is total agony), my nose once, all of my fingers except my thumbs several times. My eyebrows don't grow properly because of the amount of times they were split open. I've also been hit so hard my ribs have separated. The worst was an uppercut with drove my right incisor up my gum. I still have the gum shield. You can see the impact on the plastic. ( I'll show it to you at Thrillerfest in 2009.) All those injuries happened to me in training, you know - not in the ring. The worst injury I got in the ring was to my pride, when I lost. Which I did a few times. I don't actually think I was that good at boxing, you know?
Writing seems much less painful! Haiti has had a massive influence on you. Is it a place you feel drawn to?
My mother's Haitian, so I have the country in my blood.
But it is very dangerous. Would you want to live there yourself?
Mr Clarinet - my first novel - was set in Haiti in 1996. I wrote it between 2003-4. I haven't been back to Haiti in eleven years.
I tried living and working there, between 1996 and 1997. Very very dangerous. I had two guns (Glock 17s) - one at home, one at work. Never had occasion to use them, but I came away with a working knowledge of firearms.
That shows - I'm a pistol shooter, and there's nothing that puts me off faster than a writer who obviously hasn't handled a gun before. But Haiti?
It's actually worse now. You're apparently doing well if, on your first day, you don't get kidnapped on your way out of the airport.
Did you have to do much research into black magic?
I made up the black magic stuff. But the occult is very strong in Haiti. My mother told me she and her friends used to use Ouija boards at school - in their break times. People regularly consult fortune tellers in Haiti too. King of Swords drew on that side of things very heavily.
Your books talk a lot about voodoo - do you think this still influences the people?
Voodoo is the national religion of Haiti. As is Catholicism. There's a saying that Haitians are 95% Catholic and 100% voodooiste. It's true. When Haiti was a French colony, the people were forcibly converted to Catholicism. Being clever and wily in equal measure, Haitians decided that overt resistance was futile, so they went for subversion instead. They co-opted Catholic saints as voodoo deities. Thus The Virgin Mary became Erzulie, goddess of love etc etc. They'd go to church and worship their gods in their hearts, while outwardly pretending to worship the saints. This then fused over time and became a religion unto itself - although both Catholicism and voodoo are practised separately.
I should add that the Catholic Church is a force of genuine good in Haiti.
Modern writers are very important to you. I know you have a great admiration for Ed McBain's books. Who else has influenced your writing?
I'd define influential writers as the ones who either make you want to write yourself, or write such great books that they inspire you to raise your own bar. So, in the latter category, I'd rate, for example, Don Winslow's The Power of the Dog as THE best thriller of the decade. I'd also include Tim Willocks's Green River Rising in that category. It's as close to a perfect thriller as you can get.
In the former category I'd include Charles Willeford, Cormac McCarthy, Paul Auster, Kafka, Dostoyevsky, Elmore Leonard, James Ellroy, Don DeLillo, Tom Wolfe, Nelson Algren, James M Cain, Richard Price, Dickens, Hubert Selby Jnr, Eric Ambler, Graham Greene, George Orwell, Iceberg Slim, Stephen King, Donald Goines, Chester Himes, Walter Moseley, George Pelecanos.
I would also like to give special thanks and praise to Michael Connelly, whose books I only started reading this year. He's a genuinely great writer.
I agree. Did you have any concern about writing about recent history? I'd be petrified about getting details wrong - putting in a mobile phone a year or two before they became popular, for example.
I know what you mean, but no, I was ok with all that. Had a lot of fun with it in fact. My wife used to work for Colgate in the early 80s. She was one of the first people in the company to use computers, so she told me all about that first generation of PCs. They had proto-email in 1982. I also have another friend who was a computer whiz in the 80s: he showed me the internet in 1987 or 1988. He's since gone on to make millions .... Sorry, I digress.
Where do you go for references to Miami life in the 1980s?
All over. Something I read in a magazine piece or newspaper article will have me trawling the internet, which will then throw up all manner of interesting things, hydra-style. Plus I know a lot of people in Miami, locals who lived through the era and they come up with the best stories - stuff you'd never read anywhere. Maybe because it's bullshit. But who cares? Great bullshit is worth its weight in fact.
Do you have to spend much time away?
Not really, no. I'd like to spend more though - like the rest of my life, in the US. We're working on that.
I know you are mad keen on Bruce Springsteen - what other music do you like?
I've got very broad tastes in music, although that doesn't mean I listen to everything. Nor does it mean I'm open-minded either. There's plenty I hate. Like Coldplay. Fucking grim, that group. And I loathe all British guitar music made by anyone under 34. And then I have a severe allergy to most rap music made after 2002. Totally joyless and dumb. Except for Cuban and Brazilian rap - that's really really good. Inventive.
Otherwise, I listen to a lot of jazz. Different genres, from trad through to fusion. Plus I love The Who, Sly & the Family Stone, The Clash, Parliament/Funkadelic, TV On The Radio, Can, Neu, early PIL. My favourite singers are Marvin Gaye, Curtis Mayfield, Scott Walker, Frank Sinatra, George Jones and Johnny Cash.
Do you envisage the Mingus books becoming an extensive series?
I'm not thinking of extending the Mingus series beyond the three books I have - or, by 2010, will have - written. I may return to the character in the future though, if I get the right fit for an idea. I'll be writing standalones after the next Mingus book. All set in or around Miami.
Would you consider writing in a different genre, and if so, what?
I'm very happy writing in the crime/thriller genre. And I feel I have plenty to do in the genre. Plus my ambition is to write a better book every time.
Internationally acclaimed novelist Michael Jecks is the ITW UK chair and former chairman of the UK Crime Writers' Association. Visit Michael's website at http://www.michaeljecks.com/
The Max part is a tribute to the guy who got me reading - Max Allen. He was a great guy. Haven't seen him in close to twenty years. We were at school together in the early 80s.
I used to keep him company while he smoked the same cigars Freud did - all the while telling me that Freud had died of mouth cancer. We'd talk books. Max had read Ulysses, Finnegan's Wake, and Mann's Doctor Faustus all before the age of 14. He got me reading. I'd read something he'd given me and then we'd discuss it while he gassed himself with a Sigmund stogie. Never met anyone like him again. He possessed genuine intelligence. People like him are few and far between. Most people at school who are supposed to be intelligent, are actually only good at doing exams and homework. They grow up and become middle managers.
Knowing Max, he'd probably be appalled by the tribute. The Mingus part is a respectful bow and scrape to Charles Mingus - jazz bassist, composer, bandleader, martinet, slugger and a very gifted author too. His "autobiography" Beneath the Underdog is well worth a read. It's about 85% fiction, but so beautifully written. He wrote it in Bellevue mental hospital, where he'd checked himself in for exhaustion and to get some peace and quiet. There's a beautiful scene in there where he's playing chess with Bobby Fischer and discussing creativity vs. productivity. The way he describes Fischer is actually quite close to the way I remember Max Allen. Another one-off, Mingus.
You have a real fascination with Miami. Too much Miami Vice when you were younger?I've been going to Miami since 1979. I know it better than I do London, where I've lived for sixteen years. Miami's my favourite place on earth. Home in my heart.
I never watched Miami Vice when it was originally on. I barely watched any tv as a kid. And I've only ever seen the pilot - and that was late last year. Had that been my only exposure to Miami, I never would have set books there. Ditto that fucking awful film. I love Michael Mann - one of my favourite directors, a genuine auteur in an industry of quacks - but the film was dire. Terrible TERRIBLE casting. I think the three leads gave the worst performances of their careers.
The violence in your books is very authentic - have you had experience of such violence?
I'm on fairly intimate terms with violence. I used to be an amateur boxer in my teens. I've had my jaw broken twice (which is total agony), my nose once, all of my fingers except my thumbs several times. My eyebrows don't grow properly because of the amount of times they were split open. I've also been hit so hard my ribs have separated. The worst was an uppercut with drove my right incisor up my gum. I still have the gum shield. You can see the impact on the plastic. ( I'll show it to you at Thrillerfest in 2009.) All those injuries happened to me in training, you know - not in the ring. The worst injury I got in the ring was to my pride, when I lost. Which I did a few times. I don't actually think I was that good at boxing, you know?
Writing seems much less painful! Haiti has had a massive influence on you. Is it a place you feel drawn to?
My mother's Haitian, so I have the country in my blood.
But it is very dangerous. Would you want to live there yourself?
Mr Clarinet - my first novel - was set in Haiti in 1996. I wrote it between 2003-4. I haven't been back to Haiti in eleven years.
I tried living and working there, between 1996 and 1997. Very very dangerous. I had two guns (Glock 17s) - one at home, one at work. Never had occasion to use them, but I came away with a working knowledge of firearms.
That shows - I'm a pistol shooter, and there's nothing that puts me off faster than a writer who obviously hasn't handled a gun before. But Haiti?
It's actually worse now. You're apparently doing well if, on your first day, you don't get kidnapped on your way out of the airport.
Did you have to do much research into black magic?
I made up the black magic stuff. But the occult is very strong in Haiti. My mother told me she and her friends used to use Ouija boards at school - in their break times. People regularly consult fortune tellers in Haiti too. King of Swords drew on that side of things very heavily.
Your books talk a lot about voodoo - do you think this still influences the people?
Voodoo is the national religion of Haiti. As is Catholicism. There's a saying that Haitians are 95% Catholic and 100% voodooiste. It's true. When Haiti was a French colony, the people were forcibly converted to Catholicism. Being clever and wily in equal measure, Haitians decided that overt resistance was futile, so they went for subversion instead. They co-opted Catholic saints as voodoo deities. Thus The Virgin Mary became Erzulie, goddess of love etc etc. They'd go to church and worship their gods in their hearts, while outwardly pretending to worship the saints. This then fused over time and became a religion unto itself - although both Catholicism and voodoo are practised separately.
I should add that the Catholic Church is a force of genuine good in Haiti.
Modern writers are very important to you. I know you have a great admiration for Ed McBain's books. Who else has influenced your writing?
I'd define influential writers as the ones who either make you want to write yourself, or write such great books that they inspire you to raise your own bar. So, in the latter category, I'd rate, for example, Don Winslow's The Power of the Dog as THE best thriller of the decade. I'd also include Tim Willocks's Green River Rising in that category. It's as close to a perfect thriller as you can get.
In the former category I'd include Charles Willeford, Cormac McCarthy, Paul Auster, Kafka, Dostoyevsky, Elmore Leonard, James Ellroy, Don DeLillo, Tom Wolfe, Nelson Algren, James M Cain, Richard Price, Dickens, Hubert Selby Jnr, Eric Ambler, Graham Greene, George Orwell, Iceberg Slim, Stephen King, Donald Goines, Chester Himes, Walter Moseley, George Pelecanos.
I would also like to give special thanks and praise to Michael Connelly, whose books I only started reading this year. He's a genuinely great writer.
I agree. Did you have any concern about writing about recent history? I'd be petrified about getting details wrong - putting in a mobile phone a year or two before they became popular, for example.
I know what you mean, but no, I was ok with all that. Had a lot of fun with it in fact. My wife used to work for Colgate in the early 80s. She was one of the first people in the company to use computers, so she told me all about that first generation of PCs. They had proto-email in 1982. I also have another friend who was a computer whiz in the 80s: he showed me the internet in 1987 or 1988. He's since gone on to make millions .... Sorry, I digress.
Where do you go for references to Miami life in the 1980s?
All over. Something I read in a magazine piece or newspaper article will have me trawling the internet, which will then throw up all manner of interesting things, hydra-style. Plus I know a lot of people in Miami, locals who lived through the era and they come up with the best stories - stuff you'd never read anywhere. Maybe because it's bullshit. But who cares? Great bullshit is worth its weight in fact.
Do you have to spend much time away?
Not really, no. I'd like to spend more though - like the rest of my life, in the US. We're working on that.
I know you are mad keen on Bruce Springsteen - what other music do you like?
I've got very broad tastes in music, although that doesn't mean I listen to everything. Nor does it mean I'm open-minded either. There's plenty I hate. Like Coldplay. Fucking grim, that group. And I loathe all British guitar music made by anyone under 34. And then I have a severe allergy to most rap music made after 2002. Totally joyless and dumb. Except for Cuban and Brazilian rap - that's really really good. Inventive.
Otherwise, I listen to a lot of jazz. Different genres, from trad through to fusion. Plus I love The Who, Sly & the Family Stone, The Clash, Parliament/Funkadelic, TV On The Radio, Can, Neu, early PIL. My favourite singers are Marvin Gaye, Curtis Mayfield, Scott Walker, Frank Sinatra, George Jones and Johnny Cash.
Do you envisage the Mingus books becoming an extensive series?
I'm not thinking of extending the Mingus series beyond the three books I have - or, by 2010, will have - written. I may return to the character in the future though, if I get the right fit for an idea. I'll be writing standalones after the next Mingus book. All set in or around Miami.
Would you consider writing in a different genre, and if so, what?
I'm very happy writing in the crime/thriller genre. And I feel I have plenty to do in the genre. Plus my ambition is to write a better book every time.
Internationally acclaimed novelist Michael Jecks is the ITW UK chair and former chairman of the UK Crime Writers' Association. Visit Michael's website at http://www.michaeljecks.com/
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